What some have to say about Pastor Andrew Teesdale of Everett Washington owner of the evil, ungodly Fighting Fundamental Forum and Baptist Board.
http://www.chnetwork.org/forums/forum10/2718.html
"Back before getting started with these forums, I had started to post on the Fighting Fundamental Forums. They are allegedly a fundamentalist Baptist group of forums which use software similar to that used here. Anyway, the difference is like night and day. Here, I get a feeling that I am truly discussing, in large part, Christian issues with Christians. on the Fighting Fundamental Forums, I just have to wonder about those folks, have to wonder about their spirituality or lack of it. Anyway, I hope that you will pray for the posters on the Fighting Fundamental Forums. Please pray that they will truly turn to Christ if they have not already done so."
http://www.youngfundamentalists.com/2007/12/young-fundamentalists-forums.html
Hey all, are you sick of the liberal weirdos over at the Fighting Fundamental Forums? Those guys are good for laughs but when you want a real discussion with like minded Christians it's not the best place to go.
http://www.stumbleupon.com/url/fundamentalforums.com/
Holy ****** ****! The prayer request thread is one of hte funniest things i have ever read. Oh, and this forum seethes with evil.
Some of the worst posters on there who call people names, don't know the bible, live ungodly lives by their own admission and is revealed in their posts.....are such people who claim to be pastors and leaders within the IFB church or community.
Tuesday, November 18, 2008
Wednesday, October 29, 2008
Recommended books on IFB Church abuse
SCHIZOPHRENIC CHRISTIANITY, By Jeri Massi
http://www.amazon.com/Schizophrenic-Christianity-Christian-Fundamentalism-Sociopaths/dp/0981471803
Illuminates Many Aspects of the Need to Demand Clergy Accountability, April 28, 2008
By Jeri Massi "keen on the grace of God" (Raleigh, NC United States) - See all my reviews
"[SCHIZOPHRENIC CHRISTIANITY] successfully illuminates many aspects of this battle for clergy accountability and shows how Christian fundamentalism allows monstrous men to prey on the flock while still maintaining a mask of goodness. The book tells the real deal on "big bad Baptist business as usual," and Jeri tells it out of love for her faith.
She shows how, in this "business," the value of human life is traded off for the power and image of the religious leaders.
Using case studies of Independent Fundamental Baptist pastors accused or convicted of child molestation, the book reveals how pastors' young victims become nothing more than a cost of doing business for a religion gone horribly wrong.
The autonomous churches provide a porous structure that abandons accountability in favor of independence and immunity for the leaders. With no system for oversight, wolves are able to infiltrate with ease.
"If a man has charm and natural charisma, it's harder for a man to get a driver's license than to become an IFB preacher," explains Jeri.
At the same time, the highly authoritarian theology of Christian fundamentalism renders the sheep all the more trusting, submissive and vulnerable. They are effectively indoctrinated to become perfect prey.
With still more insights drawn from psychological research, Jeri points out that one of the defining characteristics of a sociopath is the strong desire for personal autonomy and control over others. What better place for a sociopath to achieve that end than in autonomous churches where pastors carry such prestige and authority that their words are not questioned and where systems of oversight are nonexistent?
It's a scary picture, but it's a picture that many of us have seen up close for ourselves. We know it to be true."
Taken from StopBaptistPredators blog, with the express permission of Christa Brown, founder of the Baptist arm of SNAP, the Survivors Network of Clergy Abuse.
SUBTLE POWER OF SPIRITUAL ABUSE
http://www.geocities.com/hotsprings/3658/subtle.html
Just a bit of it's content
Identifying the Abusive System
1. Power-Posturing
You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men (1 Cor. 7:23).
“Power-posturing simply means that leaders spend a lot of time focused on their own authority and reminding others of it, as well. This is necessary because their spiritual authority isn’t real—based on genuine godly character—it is postured.” (p.63)“Those who are in positions of true leadership demonstrate authority, spiritual power, and credibility by their lives and message.” (p.64)
“As Romans 13:1 says, There is no authority except from God. Being hired or elected to a spiritual position, talking the loudest, or giving the most does not give someone authority.” (p.64)
2. Performance Preoccupation
“Among my people are wicked men who lie in wait like men who snare birds…their houses are full of deceit; they have become rich and powerful… Their evil deeds have no limit; they do not plead the cause of the fatherless… they do not defend the rights of the poor”(Jer. 5:26-28).
“If obedience and service is flowing out of you as a result of your dependence on God alone, you won’t keep track of it with an eye toward reward, you’ll just do it. But if you’re preoccupied with whether you’ve done enough to please God, then you’re not looking at Him, you’re looking at your own works. And you’re also concerned about who else might be looking at you, evaluating you. Why would anyone keep track of their ‘godly’ behaviour unless they were trying to earn spiritual points because of it?” (p.65)
“Are obedience and submission important? Without question. This can be seen in Romans 13:1…1 Peter 5:5…and Hebrews 13:17. To bring balance, however, we must add to these verses an equally important passage. Consider the words of Peter and the other apostles in Acts 5:29: ‘We must obey God rather than men.’ Notice that Peter is saying this to the religious leaders he was disobeying. Out of context, obedience to leaders looks like good theology. Add the larger context, and you will see that it is only appropriate to obey and submit to leadership when their authority is from God and their stance is consistent with His.” (p.66)
“In Romans 12:2 Paul says, ‘Do not be conformed… but be transformed… ’. In a performance-based church or family, that verse might be applied like this: ‘Our church or leader is right; we have a truer, purer ‘word’ from God than others. Therefore, we must adhere to our formula or brand of Christianity as hard and fast as possible—so we won’t become like those out there who don’t think as we do. If I do not live up to all I’ve been taught here, I will be letting God down.’ This orientation squeezes people from the outside in. They are not transformed, they are conformed.” (p.66)
3. Unspoken Rules
“Woe to you,scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites,because you devour widow’shouses, even while for a pretense you make long prayers;therefore you shall receive greater condemnation”(Matt. 23:14).
“‘You know we must never disagree with the pastor on his sermons—and if you do, you will never be trusted and never be allowed to minister in any capacity in this church.’ In this case, the unspoken rule is: Do not disagree with the church authorities —especially the pastor—or your loyalty will be suspect. Rules like this remain unspoken, because examining them in the light of mature dialogue would instantly reveal how illogical, unhealthy and anti-Christian they are. So silence becomes the fortress wall of protection, shielding the pastor’s power position from scrutiny or challenge.” (p.67)
In some churches there is “an unwritten and unspoken rule that said, ‘It is better to be nice than honest’.”
“If you speak about the problem out loud, you are the problem.”
“The truth is, when people talk about problems out loud, they don't cause them, they simply expose them.” (p.68)
“Too many churches communicate this kind of shaming message: ‘The problem is not that your boundaries were crossed and violated, the problem is that you talked. If you would not have made such a big deal, everything would still be fine.’ If a person accepts that message, they will stop talking.
The real problem, however, is that if a Christian who feels violated stops talking, then the perpetrator will never be held accountable for his behaviour.” (p.69)
http://www.amazon.com/Schizophrenic-Christianity-Christian-Fundamentalism-Sociopaths/dp/0981471803
Illuminates Many Aspects of the Need to Demand Clergy Accountability, April 28, 2008
By Jeri Massi "keen on the grace of God" (Raleigh, NC United States) - See all my reviews
"[SCHIZOPHRENIC CHRISTIANITY] successfully illuminates many aspects of this battle for clergy accountability and shows how Christian fundamentalism allows monstrous men to prey on the flock while still maintaining a mask of goodness. The book tells the real deal on "big bad Baptist business as usual," and Jeri tells it out of love for her faith.
She shows how, in this "business," the value of human life is traded off for the power and image of the religious leaders.
Using case studies of Independent Fundamental Baptist pastors accused or convicted of child molestation, the book reveals how pastors' young victims become nothing more than a cost of doing business for a religion gone horribly wrong.
The autonomous churches provide a porous structure that abandons accountability in favor of independence and immunity for the leaders. With no system for oversight, wolves are able to infiltrate with ease.
"If a man has charm and natural charisma, it's harder for a man to get a driver's license than to become an IFB preacher," explains Jeri.
At the same time, the highly authoritarian theology of Christian fundamentalism renders the sheep all the more trusting, submissive and vulnerable. They are effectively indoctrinated to become perfect prey.
With still more insights drawn from psychological research, Jeri points out that one of the defining characteristics of a sociopath is the strong desire for personal autonomy and control over others. What better place for a sociopath to achieve that end than in autonomous churches where pastors carry such prestige and authority that their words are not questioned and where systems of oversight are nonexistent?
It's a scary picture, but it's a picture that many of us have seen up close for ourselves. We know it to be true."
Taken from StopBaptistPredators blog, with the express permission of Christa Brown, founder of the Baptist arm of SNAP, the Survivors Network of Clergy Abuse.
SUBTLE POWER OF SPIRITUAL ABUSE
http://www.geocities.com/hotsprings/3658/subtle.html
Just a bit of it's content
Identifying the Abusive System
1. Power-Posturing
You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men (1 Cor. 7:23).
“Power-posturing simply means that leaders spend a lot of time focused on their own authority and reminding others of it, as well. This is necessary because their spiritual authority isn’t real—based on genuine godly character—it is postured.” (p.63)“Those who are in positions of true leadership demonstrate authority, spiritual power, and credibility by their lives and message.” (p.64)
“As Romans 13:1 says, There is no authority except from God. Being hired or elected to a spiritual position, talking the loudest, or giving the most does not give someone authority.” (p.64)
2. Performance Preoccupation
“Among my people are wicked men who lie in wait like men who snare birds…their houses are full of deceit; they have become rich and powerful… Their evil deeds have no limit; they do not plead the cause of the fatherless… they do not defend the rights of the poor”(Jer. 5:26-28).
“If obedience and service is flowing out of you as a result of your dependence on God alone, you won’t keep track of it with an eye toward reward, you’ll just do it. But if you’re preoccupied with whether you’ve done enough to please God, then you’re not looking at Him, you’re looking at your own works. And you’re also concerned about who else might be looking at you, evaluating you. Why would anyone keep track of their ‘godly’ behaviour unless they were trying to earn spiritual points because of it?” (p.65)
“Are obedience and submission important? Without question. This can be seen in Romans 13:1…1 Peter 5:5…and Hebrews 13:17. To bring balance, however, we must add to these verses an equally important passage. Consider the words of Peter and the other apostles in Acts 5:29: ‘We must obey God rather than men.’ Notice that Peter is saying this to the religious leaders he was disobeying. Out of context, obedience to leaders looks like good theology. Add the larger context, and you will see that it is only appropriate to obey and submit to leadership when their authority is from God and their stance is consistent with His.” (p.66)
“In Romans 12:2 Paul says, ‘Do not be conformed… but be transformed… ’. In a performance-based church or family, that verse might be applied like this: ‘Our church or leader is right; we have a truer, purer ‘word’ from God than others. Therefore, we must adhere to our formula or brand of Christianity as hard and fast as possible—so we won’t become like those out there who don’t think as we do. If I do not live up to all I’ve been taught here, I will be letting God down.’ This orientation squeezes people from the outside in. They are not transformed, they are conformed.” (p.66)
3. Unspoken Rules
“Woe to you,scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites,because you devour widow’shouses, even while for a pretense you make long prayers;therefore you shall receive greater condemnation”(Matt. 23:14).
“‘You know we must never disagree with the pastor on his sermons—and if you do, you will never be trusted and never be allowed to minister in any capacity in this church.’ In this case, the unspoken rule is: Do not disagree with the church authorities —especially the pastor—or your loyalty will be suspect. Rules like this remain unspoken, because examining them in the light of mature dialogue would instantly reveal how illogical, unhealthy and anti-Christian they are. So silence becomes the fortress wall of protection, shielding the pastor’s power position from scrutiny or challenge.” (p.67)
In some churches there is “an unwritten and unspoken rule that said, ‘It is better to be nice than honest’.”
“If you speak about the problem out loud, you are the problem.”
“The truth is, when people talk about problems out loud, they don't cause them, they simply expose them.” (p.68)
“Too many churches communicate this kind of shaming message: ‘The problem is not that your boundaries were crossed and violated, the problem is that you talked. If you would not have made such a big deal, everything would still be fine.’ If a person accepts that message, they will stop talking.
The real problem, however, is that if a Christian who feels violated stops talking, then the perpetrator will never be held accountable for his behaviour.” (p.69)
Monday, October 27, 2008
Problems within IFB churches
The Independent Fundamental Baptist movement is a small group within true Christianity, but it's devastating and often times damaging effects are large. Although they claim to be solely bible based and many are, their main focus often times is Pharisaical and legalistic to the point of hurting many new believers, turning unbelievers off, or just hurting the name of Christ as a whole.A good example of this can be found on Pastor Andrew Teesdale of Everett Washington ... Fighting Fundamental Forum and his Baptist Board forum. It seems the only people who can control these forums, are those who are related or friends in some way or form to Andrew Teesdale.
http://www.fbceverett.com/our-pastor.html
www.fundamentalforums.com
If an outsider comes in who actually knows the bible or takes a stand on the IFB legalistic ways and how they have hurt many under these types of pastors leadership, they are immediately attacked and called names and basically ridiculed off the board if not banned. Not for name calling or attacking the messenger, but for their own views on doctrines other than their own. That can be fine and dandy if it were not for the fact that the ones who attack (often times pastors themselves) are FOUL MOUTHED, slanderous, lie about the poster, personally attack the messenger and not the message, (because they know they cannot) sarcastic, or just don't know the bible....bottom line is the forum owner plays favorites while innocent well meaning good Christians get hurt....much like what goes on within their churches. Their tactics in the church and off are the same.
Some of their legalistic teachings are King James Only bibles, women MUST wear dresses or they are not godly, no mixed swimming, no dancing, no drinking, women must not have their own opinions, that is the husbands job, or men in general. Basically the outward determines your right standing with God not your heart, and your own walk with him. With so much focus on the outward and not the heart (out of the heart spews ones true self and is evident on these forums) it is no wonder so few attend IFB churches.
What one poster on the CHNI forum had to say about the Fighting Fundamental Forum
"Back before getting started with these forums, I had started to post on the Fighting Fundamental Forums. They are allegedly a fundamentalist Baptist group of forums which use software similar to that used here. Anyway, the difference is like night and day. Here, I get a feeling that I am truly discussing, in large part, Christian issues with Christians. on the Fighting Fundamental Forums, I just have to wonder about those folks, have to wonder about their spirituality or lack of it. Anyway, I hope that you will pray for the posters on the Fighting Fundamental Forums. Please pray that they will truly turn to Christ if they have not already done so."
http://www.fbceverett.com/our-pastor.html
www.fundamentalforums.com
If an outsider comes in who actually knows the bible or takes a stand on the IFB legalistic ways and how they have hurt many under these types of pastors leadership, they are immediately attacked and called names and basically ridiculed off the board if not banned. Not for name calling or attacking the messenger, but for their own views on doctrines other than their own. That can be fine and dandy if it were not for the fact that the ones who attack (often times pastors themselves) are FOUL MOUTHED, slanderous, lie about the poster, personally attack the messenger and not the message, (because they know they cannot) sarcastic, or just don't know the bible....bottom line is the forum owner plays favorites while innocent well meaning good Christians get hurt....much like what goes on within their churches. Their tactics in the church and off are the same.
Some of their legalistic teachings are King James Only bibles, women MUST wear dresses or they are not godly, no mixed swimming, no dancing, no drinking, women must not have their own opinions, that is the husbands job, or men in general. Basically the outward determines your right standing with God not your heart, and your own walk with him. With so much focus on the outward and not the heart (out of the heart spews ones true self and is evident on these forums) it is no wonder so few attend IFB churches.
What one poster on the CHNI forum had to say about the Fighting Fundamental Forum
"Back before getting started with these forums, I had started to post on the Fighting Fundamental Forums. They are allegedly a fundamentalist Baptist group of forums which use software similar to that used here. Anyway, the difference is like night and day. Here, I get a feeling that I am truly discussing, in large part, Christian issues with Christians. on the Fighting Fundamental Forums, I just have to wonder about those folks, have to wonder about their spirituality or lack of it. Anyway, I hope that you will pray for the posters on the Fighting Fundamental Forums. Please pray that they will truly turn to Christ if they have not already done so."
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